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Okay folks, Apple didn't change the power cord on a whim, they changed it because the power requirements went up. They are pulling almost 15 amps on a fully loaded on the 2.5G5DPDC with 2X500GB HD's, and 16GB of RAM.

Original power cord specs.
IEC 60320 C13/C14 - 10 to 15 Amps.

New G5 power cord specs.
IEC 60320 C19/C20 - 16 to 20 Amps.

The odd number is female
C13 and C19 is the cord.
The even number is male.
C14 and C20 is the tower.

Thanks to the dealmaccer (please come forward) that posted this site, it is set up much nicer than my electrical specs book that I was gonna scan last night!
[www.enlightenment.co.uk]

I am very happy Apple did this, I would rather be on the safe end of a spec, then on the "burst into flames" end.

That's going to end up with a lot of upset people when their new G5 starts throwing breakers...


I'm glad I ran three 20 Amp circuits to my computer room now. Bring on the dual dual G5s!

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I quit. Temporarily. I might be back.

how much did the power requirements go up? its basically the same machine as before.

Fire up the generators! I'm gonna edit a RAW.
(this could solve a heating problem in northern climes)
JimH

well, my MDD duallie 1.25 dual boot had a 400 watt power supply, so I can easily see 2 or 3 times that with 2 dual core G5s, the extra cooling they need, and a few drives and a very high end video card.

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It's all fun and games untill someone blurts out the safe word...

Come on .... this machine is going to be drawing ~1500-2000 watts of power?

You'd be surprised at the number of homes running 15A circuits. Some of mine are.

Looks like you can make your own cords:

[www.stayonline.com]

15 Amp wall receptacles look different also-notice the one leg is 90° different
[www.audioexcellenceaz.com]

Most homes run 15 amp circuits. It the standard electrical current code isn't it?

I need to unhook my in-wall electric heater in my office to get another 15 amp circuit. I don't need heat with several computers and CRT monitors running.

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It's all fun and games untill someone blurts out the safe word...

Racer X Wrote:
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> Most homes run 15 amp circuits. It the standard
> electrical current code isn't it?

Depends on your geographical location. You'd have to look long and hard to find a 15 amp circuit in a home around here. 20 amp is the norm.




Edited 1 times. Last edit at 10/20/05 12:00PM by Golfer.

every home I have been in in the Pacific Northwest has 15 amp circuits as the norm. That outlet you posted is a 20 amp outlet AFAIK. That is what I see here when they have a 20A circuit.

Maybe building code has changed in the last year or two, but 15A is all I see. And that is in a range of homes from the 1920s on through several years old.

Hey VP FranX, yours is a 2001 or so house. 15 amp outlets?

_______________________________________________________________

It's all fun and games untill someone blurts out the safe word...





Edited 1 times. Last edit at 10/20/05 12:07PM by Racer X.

Golfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Racer X Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Most homes run 15 amp circuits. It the
> standard
> > electrical current code isn't it?
>
> Depends on your geographical location. You'd have
> to look long and hard to find a 15 amp circuit in
> a home around here. 20 amp is the norm.
>
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at 10/20/05 12:00PM by
> Golfer.

That might be the norm around where you are now, but go back 25-30 years ago and 15 A circuits were the norm almost everywhere for residential service.

And that outlet Ken Sp. has shown is a 20 A outlet that can also take standard 15 A plugs. A 20 A 120 V plug has the one blade turned at a right angle.

The 90-degree turned blade is so that you can put a male 20A plug on the wire connected to your device (G5, toaster, etc) and be assured that the user can't plug it into an outlet that will only supply 15amps.

ooops==sorry for the confusion--the turned blade is for 20AMP-I stand corrected.
If it is a 15 map circuit and the G5 draws a lot of amperage-does this mean having the G5 and a laser printer on the same circuit might be trouble.

10 ga. -30 amps
12 ga. -20 amps
14 ga. -15 amps

If the new cord on the box is 12 ga., then it's likely to be designed for an operating wattage of 1500. (3/4 of max).

1500 watts of heat (as in portable heater) = 10 each 150 watt light bulbs.
I am a little skeptical that a computer is going to output that much.

If it sucks that much juice then they can forget it for me, I'm
too tight to use that much juice for one single computer. It's
hard to believe it would pull that much the high-end gaming
PC's are using what, about a 600watt Power Supply?

the outlet pictured is not only a 20amp outlet but an isolated ground outlet as well (if it's wired correctly).

The maximum continuous draw listed for these G5's is 10 A. I have not yet found a listing for maximum instantaneous draw, but 1.5 to 2 times continuous is fairly common. Apple probably did not want to push the limits of the IEC C13 plug and also not use the C15 or C15A variants. I have seen too many persons force a C13 into a C16 socket, resulting in cords heating up or the connection overheating. May only be an issue for the Quad Core G5 maxed out on RAM and storage, but it would be more expensive to outfit just that model with the different cord and socket.

Racer X, the regular rooms in my house (bedrooms, office...) have 15A circuits. Everything else is higher. The house is from 1993.

JoeH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The maximum continuous draw listed for these G5's
> is 10 A.

Where'd you find that?

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You Can't Handle the VP FranX Wrote:

> JoeH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The maximum continuous draw listed for these
> G5's
> > is 10 A.
>
> Where'd you find that?
>

From the Technical Specs page:

[www.apple.com]

Lists power as "Maximum current: At least 10A (low-voltage range) or 5A (high-voltage range)". Allow for a normal for electronics power factor of .6-.7, that translates to about 600-700 W at 10 A. That sounds about right to support 16 GB of RAM, up to 150 W for a video card, 2 dual core processors, and the rest of the power demands for a fully outfitted Quad Core.

10A 110/120V isn't really that much. But if you have a laser printer, LCD and a lamp or two, that's your entire circuit.

_______________________________________________________________

It's all fun and games untill someone blurts out the safe word...

JoeH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You Can't Handle the VP FranX Wrote:
> From the Technical Specs page:
>
> Lists power as "Maximum current: At least 10A
> (low-voltage range) or 5A (high-voltage range)".
> Allow for a normal for electronics power factor of
> .6-.7, that translates to about 600-700 W at 10 A.
> That sounds about right to support 16 GB of RAM,
> up to 150 W for a video card, 2 dual core
> processors, and the rest of the power demands for
> a fully outfitted Quad Core.

MacMagnus and I have gone over this before. The numbers cited are theoretical. Power usage ratings on computers is almost always bloated. Apple does "Think Different" so there's, of course, a chance those numbers are accurate. The dual 2.7 has a 605W PSU but Apple says it can draw 6.5A. That would be a ~715W draw. Way above the PSU, and PSUs almost never deliver the amount of power they're rated at. A cheap 600W PSU will be lucky to deliver 300W.

Still though, the jump from a theoretical 6.5 to 10 is significant.

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maybe they are beefing up the whole machine to take into account some changes later on down the road?

_______________________________________________________________

It's all fun and games untill someone blurts out the safe word...

FranX, V x A equals Watts on an AC circuit only for pure resistive loads, otherwise it only applies for DC circuits. For non-resistive loads you MUST use the equipment's power factor to calculate either the amperage from the watts or vice-versa. For typical electronics like computers, that power factor tends to be in the .7 range, so the amperage draw for will be higher for the same wattage used compared to a pure resistive load. So your calculation of ~715 W is off for the Dual 2.7 drawing up to 6.5 A, though it does appear that Apple is basing its numbers on a power factor of about .8-.85.

As for PSU's delivering their full rated power, it all depends on how well the PSU is matched to the draws in the computer. All too often there is a poor match, so you might see nearly 100% of the 12 V power being used, and less than say 25% on the 2.5 or 3.3 V rails. Or the other way around.

JoeH, you used some technical terms to explain what I was trying to. You also seem to know a bit about PSUs too. Do you have any links to other information which might go more in-depth on the subject?

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JoeH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lists power as "Maximum current: At least 10A
> (low-voltage range) or 5A (high-voltage range)".

Aren't the important words here, "At least"? That 10A figure may be for the low end DP since they don't provide discrete figures for different models. The QP obviously will eat more power.

what we really need are some solar panels to retreive some of the extra light being put out by all these20 & 24" LCD's... not really.

The "at least" term probably refers to the amperage drawn at nominal voltages for 110 and 220 V circuits. The draw at the minimum voltage of 100 V would require a higher draw in amps to meet the PSU output requirements. In any case, I am still waiting on Apple to post the hardware guide in the Developers' area to find some more details. If the same power factor applies, that would imply a 700-800 W PS in the new model G5's to provide enough power for all the USB and Firewire ports, the drives, the video and the rest of the machine.

As for links, lost some I had to basic introductory sites when work replaced my PC without notice. The bookmarks were not transferred and not in the last backup I had. The rest is based on introductory AC/DC electronic ciruit courses taken back a few too many years ago and doing maintenance on server and workstation machines and their PSU's.

I posted this response on another thread, but it seem to apply here too

A 15 amp circuit is wired with 14 AWG (American Wire Gage) sized wire. It is against the National Electrical Code, the building code that governs the wiring of building in most of the US to protect 14 AWG wire with a 20 amp circuit breaker. Do you think there is a reason for this?

Additionally, the NEC only requires 20 circuits for specific load and/or outlets, not the whole house. Since it cost less to wire a house with smaller gage wire, which choice do you think most builders choose? Every house or apartment I have wired as a licensed Electrician had 15 amp circuits to the majority of the outlets. The only outlets required by the code to be 20 amps are: outlets in the kitchen/dining room where 2 separate circuits are required, one 20 amp circuit for only the laundry area, and one 2 circuit to supply only the bathrooms. Pretty much all the rest of the outlets in a house, even house built today, are permitted to be 15 amp circuits. However this does not mean you can't wire your whole house with 12 AWG wire for 20 amp circuits, it only means it is not required, so I would be surprised to see many house wired that way, unless a local code supersedes the NEC.

[Quote]
the maximum continuous draw is 10 A for the Quad Core G5 with two 500 GB drives, 150 W video card and 16 GB of RAM[/quote/

The 10 amps this setup would draw is large enough to be the only allowed load on a 15 amp circuit. Values to determine loads when calculating circuit ampacities are taken from the name place of the device. That is the only value considered when sizing a circuit. That also doesn't mean it should be the only factor taken into consideration, just that it is the only one referred to in the NEC. Other factors to consider are ambient temperature and humidity, and whether the load is to be continuous or not.
That is where a 20 amp circuit would be preferred. With that 10 amp name plate rating, you would be allowed other loads on a 20 amp circuit whereas with a 15 amp circuit, it would be the only allowed load, according to the NEC. We all know that this isn't the case in the real world, but when you are having plans approved or the building inspected during construction it matters a great deal.

No air conditioners? When I rewired my apartment for room air, I made sure I put 20A breakers for the new circuits and ran 12 AWG wire to new 20A outlets. The last thing I wanted was 7000BTU units tripping the breakers all the time, especially since they're not the only things plugged into those outlets.